There is a part of the Apostles Creed where I stop talking.
I do not take part in the recital of these words
"He decended into hell"
Here is the Creed that we are expected to say in unison with full unity
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
(I love You Lord)
The third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
The third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen.
I have chosen to simply say in my head...."I love You Lord" while the others talk about Him descending into hell. It makes me feel like I am a rebel when I refuse to take part in that which I dont beleive. Yet, in the interest of peace, I say " I love you Lord" in my head, rather than shouting and drowning out the others while they rebuild history.
I have been debating with another freind of mine for the last several years regarding a few faith issues. These are VERY unpopular beleifs. We debate this ONLY in private as each of us is afraid or uncomfortable with the thought of incorrectly influencing others. In fact, I have never mentioned some of my deep thoughts that run contrary to Christian popular beleif. I dont dare write about it because my mom and brother and family and freinds all read my blog. oh oh...now I just made for a small family scandal...teehee
My freind Ron and I have a freindship that allows us to share and work through our beleifs, free from judgement or scorn. The result of our debates is that we have each comfortably adopted some of each others positions. As I began to work through the reconcilliation process, weighing it against the Word and what I feel, I have actually found that his position gave me a better reconciliation success rate. Though we remain opposite on some issues, I am amazed where this has led. He makes me so angry sometimes I could scream, yet he has brought me to such greater heights of understanding that I could hug him.
It has taken me 5 years, (or should I say 30 years) to alter some of my beleifs. 5 years of thought. 5 years of debate. 5 years of us working through each angle and implication. You go so far and then you hit a road block. You back up and try a slightly differant path and maybe make it further until the next hurdle..the next raod block. Some might say...what does it really matter? Why not just accept what we have been told?
Double R,...how long have you gently steered me to this place of new understanding? You never thumped or hit me over the head. You simply placed the hints, showed the reference and gave me time....lots of time. You knew the truth would reveal itself to me, because the truth is the truth.
You are always welcome here regardless of your opinion. The reason that is, is because you are always very respectful of me and my guests and our opinions. Just as you appreciate the opportunity to express yourself in anonimity, I appreciate your gentle guidance and point of view.
doesn't the "holy catholic church " mentioned in your creed make you think the church wrote the creed? Using the Hell word is used to put fear into us...lets try love instead of fear..
ReplyDeleteAs much as I personally dislike or disagree with portions of the Apostle’s Creed, I can probably help you with that piece of it.
ReplyDeleteThe english word hell is used 54 times in the KJV of the bible. The Hebrew word it is translated from is shaol. Shaol itself is used 65 times in the old testament, 31 times translated to “grave”, 31 times translated to “hell” and 3 times translated to “pit”. It was up to the interpreter of the non-Hebrew version of the bible to insert an english word to represent the word for the grave. Here’s were choice of interpretation sympathetic to ones understanding can come in to translating an original text. So when the apostles creed says, “He died and was buried. He descended into hell” to my particular understanding is as simple as “he descended into the grave” making it a redundant statement but correct never the less.
I guess the problem is, how much of the Greek influence of Hades on new testament translation and the whole notion of the “underworld” where souls writhe in agony for eternity creeps into our understanding of what occurs after death. Did Jesus descend into the underworld? I think not. The bible says Jesus must be dead for 3 days, not a disembodied spirit. I believe, Hades and Dante’s notion of hell shape our understanding considerably more than they should.
Is an ever-burning place of torture consistent with the God we know?
...and thank you!
ReplyDeleteLast point here...promise.
ReplyDeleteProverbs 25:2 - It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.
If any of us learns a truth in the exchange of thoughts it is because God has revealed it to us. Understanding of anything is not mine or anyone elses gift to give but God's only and the glory is His.